propanol-there I said it

[roverman]

Anyone ran or runnin? Reportedly approx. 13/1 stoich. Non waterbased , close to gasolene in calorific value and and good comparative octane with the other- "ol's". Story is, BP and Standard Oil investing heavy. They can distribute it through their existing lines. I should be able to buy commercially. Thanks, roverman.

[alcohol]

Which propanol is it? Both that I see are fully miscible in water- just like ethanol and methanol.

If it is isopropanol it appears to be slightly more aggressive to many seals/hose elastomers than ethyl alcohol (ethanol) but far less aggressive than gasoline;
If it is n-propanol (1 propanol) it is even easier on seal/ hose elastomers than even ethanol;

http://www.dupontelastomers.com/crg/tlargiguide.asp

Do you have more data to share?

[roverman]

Originally Posted by alcohol

Which propanol is it? Both that I see are fully miscible in water- just like ethanol and methanol.

If it is isopropanol it appears to be slightly more aggressive to many seals/hose elastomers than ethyl alcohol (ethanol) but far less aggressive than gasoline;
If it is n-propanol (1 propanol) it is even easier on seal/ hose elastomers than even ethanol;

http://www.dupontelastomers.com/crg/tlargiguide.asp

Do you have more data to share?

Thanks for the reply. As I understand it, It's isopropanol. I've been informed , BP. is or has used it as a gas additive. I shall check the webb-site for propanol. roverman.

[alcohol]

Originally Posted by roverman

Thanks for the reply. As I understand it, It's isopropanol. I've been informed , BP. is or has used it as a gas additive. I shall check the webb-site for propanol. roverman.

If it is iso-propanol-- then if you ever put a RED bottle of Heet in your tank- you ran on a tiny amount of it yourself. It does indeed pick up moisture as that was it's purpose as a fuel additive.

[corey872]

Are you sure it's [a] propanol? Have not heard of anyone considering it directly as a fuel. Global production is well under a billion gallons a year. Plus, the processes to make it aren't necessarily cheap/easy - at least respective to using it as a fuel.

Butanol is being looked at pretty heavily. Recent advances in process technology mean they can get more butanol per unit biomass than ethanol. It is pretty similar to gas in many respects, as you mention, ships through pipe lines, etc. It has even been billed as a 'drop in' replacement for gas with no engine mods needed. For the general public who have no idea how an engine even works and never crack the throttle over 1/2 it's a pretty good solution.

The down side it's only 87 'octane' (AKI) - so there goes all our performance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanol_fuel

[alcohol]

I thought about that too Corey- the way he describes it - it sounds like butanol. There are at least two types of butanol and while one is higher octane than the other --if memory serves me one type has an unexpected issue which I think was cold flow???

[roverman]

Thanks guy's. I propose a "peep" of the various sites regarding isopropanol. I have no desire to buy a flex fuel vehicle in CA., just so I can buy E85. I'm shopping isopro. in the commercial sector now, lest I od. on state bs. roverman.

[corey872]

OK ? Do you have any of these links - I can't find much in the way of using isopropanol as fuel at all. Though based on the first post, I think they might be feeding you some BS on iso:

'not water based' - not exactly sure what that means, but iso is completely soluble in water at all concentrations, just like ethanol and methanol. [butanol is 'slightly soluble' about 8% on a weight basis - any more and you'd have two layers which may lead someone to claim it's 'not water based']

'close to gasoline in caloric value' - well, not really. Ethanol is 76K btu/gal, iso is ~85K and regular gas is ~115K, so iso is actually much closer to ethanol in btu/gallon and a little less than 3/4 that of gasoline. [butanol is about 105K - which is pretty close to gasoline]

'13:1 stoic AFR' - I couldn't find anything on the internet for iso. Every chart I could find was methanol, ethanol, [skip propanol], butanol, etc. Breaking out the old equations:

(2)C3H7OH + (9)O2 > (6)CO2 + (8)H20

Weight:
C3H7OH = 60
O2 = 32

So, looks like you're going to need 288g oxygen to burn 120g of iso. 1 gram of air is .232g oxygen, so 288g O2 x 1g/.232g = 1241 g air. Finally 1241g air / 120g iso = 10.3 AFR - which is right in line with the other "ol's" but still a lot less than gasoline and not close to 13 either. [butanol is 11.1:1, still not 13, but about one more point than iso]

If you're exploring isopropanol as fuel, then by all means keep us posted on the research. But the properties you're posting don't sound like any form of propanol.

[corey872]

alcohol - Yes, once you get a few carbons in the chain, all sorts of structures start to be possible. You can have normal 'n-butanol', isobutanol, tertiary 't-butanol' etc. I'll spare the big chemistry lesson, but depending on where the chain branches or bonds you can get all sorts of different properties.

t-butanol freezes at ~25?C / 77?F, so anything cooler than a modest summer day and you could have issues with fuel line gelling and freeze up just like diesel. (the isobutanol and n-butanol don't suffer the same fate, then both freeze well below -100F)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-Butanol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isobutanol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Butanol